Okay, I don’t get loads of comments, but there’s usually a steady trickle (which I appreciate) and if I don’t get into the double digits very often, it’s okay. I realize I don’t have one of those blogs that gushes and causes everyone to gush along with it.
The flip side is that I rarely get comments that feel like a slap. Which made coming home to this (from our anniversary dinner no less) kind of jarring.
I always kind of thought I was smart. Glad that tee shirt cleared it up for me. I guess I’m just too stupid so I have religious beliefs. Silly me.
I’ve read your blog for a long time. We don’t see eye to on some topics, but on others we are on the same page. But gosh, if we all felt the same way, life would be pretty boring. I know, I know some people can’t see past not seeing eye to on religion. I can however. I always thought you could to. But now, well, now I know you just think I’m too dumb to understand science.
And since I don’t know how often people who do stop here come back to read later comments, I thought I’d respond front and center.
Well Brandie,
I’m sorry you took it that way. I was posting some of the shirts that caught my family’s attention as we went through the site (there are hundreds).
IRL, I let people’s religious views drift by me. LOL – If I didn’t in this ultra-religious area there would be few people to be friends with. And these are people that I enjoy and respect as friends. They don’t try to convert me and I don’t tell them their myths are a big time waster. I respect their choices.
OTH, this blog in my space. And my family found the shirts humorous and enjoyable, including the one that appears to have upset you. I was trying to share our enjoyment. Just like I gloss over some of the stuff on other blogs I read, I expect that most people will only appreciate our enjoyment while disagreeing with the content.
Living for the last 10 years with our choices questioned (has your child at age 6 been told she was going to hell because she wasn’t a Christian?) ; with smiling politely at the people (you don’t know) wishing you ‘God Bless this and that’ and restraining yourself from saying the first thing that comes to mind…
Until we were living in New Mexico for 10 months, I didn’t realize what a strain it is to live in an area where your views and values are as repressed as we deal with every day.
Repressed enough that Boy’s one over-riding decision-making tool when it came to college was to get as far from Indiana as he could get. And Girl is making noises of wanting the same thing.
With that background, can you see how freeing it is to see shirts like these? Girl has been trying to figure out if she’ll be able to wear one at the PS. There are certainly WWJD shirts and the like worn, but we give it a coin flip on whether we’ll get called in for inappropriate attire.
And the one about science? Well to put in bluntly, I’m sick of hearing about groups wanting equal time for creation science and id. Of it being in the news over and over again as schools fight and refight over the issue. Of fringe (religiously based) groups pulling it into the spotlight over and over again while the scientists just want SCIENCE taught in science courses.
I’m sorry that you take issue with that shirt (feel free to vote with your $$ by not buying it) we got a chuckle over it.
-
Very well stated!!! I personally thought the t-shirts were great and loved the fact that you shared them. I totally agree that this is your space & you get to put things you want in this space. I also understand how you feel since I live in IN, too & have to do very similar things (like not saying the first thing that comes to mind.)
-
And I whine too much in my blog…but a blog is your own party and you can do what you want to.
I’d react in the same way as you to that comment, Meg, but my friend Julie gave me a whole new perspective. She is outspoken and says she gets a good bit of hate-mail as she writes for a lot of different sites in addition to her own blog (I don’t know if you saw that thing I posted on FB about her Care2.com article, but she got a pretty nice hate-mail for that), but she said that when she was writing for the student paper in college, they’d have contests to see who can get the most hate-mail because that means they’re doing their job right and getting people to think about issues they were writing about.
I don’t think I could ever develop a thick skin to let comments slide off my back, but it is certainly interesting to hear her point of view.
Teresa´s last blog ..Has someone touched your life?
-
Meg, you inspired me to blog this and connect it to other t-shirt controversy. Enjoy.
-
I really don’t think people realize how emotionally draining it can be on a day-to-day basis to live in the Midwest, the South and other overtly Christian areas in the US as a non-Christian and – especially – as a religious non-believer. I wish she had taken a few moments to see where you were coming from before she got to typing – because you’re definitely worth reading (even if you write ‘a little blog’ like most of us).
Obi-Mom Kenobi´s last blog ..Who are you? -
That was a very good response, Meg.
I could appreciate your family’s enjoyment of the shirts without agreeing with most of them (though there are a couple truths under the surface here and there).
But now you’ve got me thinking about humor and audiences and context… perhaps I’ll blog about this. Very interesting! Thanks for putting this so well.
~Luke
Luke Holzmann´s last blog ..…it’s gonna be huge! -
Interestingly enough, in our little corner of the world, it’s not the fringe groups you have to watch out for. The state board of education is who is leading the charge to alter not only science, but also social studies to reflect a specific religious and political viewpoint to push on children. You should see some of the looks I get when I answer the “why?” question with explaining our homeschooling in terms of our desire to spare our children the overly religious and conservative curriculum that is invading our local public schools. They become totally confused and begin bumping into things. That t-shirt would easily get our kids in loads of trouble at a public school around here.
Crunchy Mama´s last blog ..Tricky Triangles, Rubber Eggs & A Guy In A Chinese Warrior Suit -
While I can sympathize to a certain extent with your feelings (as a Catholic, I’ve had some of the same kinds of experiences), I don’t think it’s the same thing wearing a “WWJD?” and wearing the t-shirts you have on your blog. The former does not insult anybody while the latter do. If I saw a Scientologist wearing a t-shirt with the message “What Would the Thetans Do?”, I probably would inwardly roll my eyes but I’m not going to feel like the wearer is making a slur against me.
We have freedom of speech in this country and I fully support your right to wear whatever message you like on your shirt. But there’s a big difference between what’s legally permissible and what common courtesy and civility dictates. I do not think people ought to wear apparel that denigrates others for their religious beliefs any more than I think folks ought to wear apparel with racist messages.
Crimson Wife´s last blog ..My Take: Home-school Parents Deserve Freedom from Unwarranted Government Intrusion -
Bring on the Rapture! I for one would be happy being left behind. And with some really great t-shirts to wear.
Lynne´s last blog ..Grade 4 -
Interesting post, Meg.
And I think CW makes a good point. From her perspective, there is no insult in suggesting I should ask myself what Jesus would do in any given situation. It is not a suggestion that I couldn’t possibly have a clue and figure it out for myself. Because that’s her norm. Right, CW? Jesus/God is a part of your day, every day.
I don’t think Christians get it. How in-your-face Christianity is in many places. We live in FL. Small town FL. You can’t swing a cat without hitting a church or a bible college.
Tonight’s open house speech from the public school principal — an otherwise lovely and encouraging-to-all welcome — ended with a big “God bless all of you!”
Not an insult? Easy to feel that way if you are part of the vast majority around here. Not so much for me. It felt creepy and inappropriate.
But the night ended on an encouraging note. The last class we visited was Biology. And “Scientific Method” was written in large letters across the chalk board. And DD says evolution has already been mentioned — by the teacher, saying that some may have conflicting beliefs but this class will include teaching about evolution. So, there’s hope.
Nance
P.S. “See eye to” ?????
Nance Confer´s last blog ..Forget Curriculum: Today’s Lesson Is Education By T-Shirt -
To Obi-mom, I never said Meg wasn’t worth reading.
To Meg, I’m not going to stop reading your blog and I don’t think you need to censor everything, but if I had a post on my blog that I was going to buy a shirt that said Atheists are dumb because they don’t believe in God, how would that make you feel? I get some religious people can say hurtful things. I married an atheist and am a protestant in a very Catholic family – you’d think just having faith would protect me from comments, but oh no, I’ve heard them. I just don’t think fighting fire with fire, or the whole eye for an eye thing is the best way to live. I wouldn’t let me kids wear clothing saying any group of people is stupid because I would never encourage my kids to judge an entire group of people that way. Of course my oldest is 9, clothing issues haven’t come up yet but I’d like to think I’ll stick with my guns on that one.
My point in commenting wasn’t to say I’d never read you again, nor was it me stomping my feet and whining you are so mean. And I got the humor in the rest of the shirts – even without agreeing with them – the whole well if you have faith you must be too dumb to get science rubbed me the wrong way, because in general, I don’t think you can judge a person’s intelligence based on their religious, or lack of religious beliefs.
Clearly, not everyone has to agree with me.
And since you asked- my kids were told they were going to hell since they weren’t baptized at birth. Because I’m just a silly parent who thought they should make that decisions for themselves. I’m a pretty liberal Christian and that makes my quite the target for a small select group of Christians. So I know the hurt and I know how it sucks when people say stuff like that you or your kids. And I’m sorry you had to hear it as well. I think in general, if we stopped judging people based on knowing only a few facts about them and decided to not be afraid of people who are different then us, the world would be a much better place.
Brandie´s last blog ..A bit of sewing! -
Also, sorry that it felt like a slap, especially on your anniversary. It was not my intention at all
Brandie´s last blog ..A bit of sewing! -
I’m still turning this issue in the light, from all different angles. I’m sure I haven’t seen understood everything nearly well enough to make valid judgments yet. Something I’m working on right now is how these (senior pastor’s) words come across to different people, and why:
“. . .spreading the church’s message is more important than education.”
Would Crimson Wife, or Luke for example agree? Would they wear it on a t-shirt and put their own children in t-shirts that proclaimed that to the world? What does it say about the church’s message not being the same as “education” btw, hmmm. . .
-
JJ, you asked, so I’ll give you my take, but I think I may need to blog about this eventually [smile]:
I would not agree (based on what I know of the situation).
I would not wear nor encourage my children to wear such a shirt (neither the Islam one nor a “spreading the church’s message is more important” one).
And I’m not sure what “message” he’s referring to, so I can’t comment on that. For example, my response would be very different if the “message” he is talking about is the good news of Christ’s death and resurrection versus, say, the need for people to abandon Islam. In the first case, I’d say he epic-ly failed to do that through his efforts, in the second, I’d question his motivation and intent.
~Luke
Luke Holzmann´s last blog ..The Sonlight | OneVerse Project -
Brandie,
Will it make you feel better if I tell you I’ve seen this one? Or at least something pretty much the same.
“Atheists are dumb because they don’t believe in God”
And I’m sorry that your kids have also gotten the “hell” treatment. You are right, while I consider you all Christians, around here Catholics and Protestants split hairs over the issue constantly. And when you throw in the Mormons that I know it gets even more complicated.
And you’re certainly welcome to express your opinions in response to my posts. The fact of the matter is that that shirt is a little too blatant in my taste too. (though probably not in the same way) It got a chuckle when we saw it, but as you’ll see from the ones I’m really considering ordering, it wasn’t what I was really interested in getting. As for your opinions, I may disagree with you and tell you so, but I’d rather have the feedback than not.
And I appreciate that you weren’t going for a “slap,” the limits of this medium are well known, and I’m usually one of the people saying to ignore the tone because you can read too much between the lines.
-
Meg,
I’ve never seen the shirt you refer to, but sadly, I am not surprised it exists. Because I know some people who would probably wear it without giving it a second thought. And since I married an atheist, clearly I don’t think they are dumb and I’m totally thinking about getting that atheists have morals shirt for my husband (although I can’t see what is in the parenthesis) because my husband has to be one of the kindest, most givingest (I think I just made up a word) and knowing that people walk around thinking the complete opposite, well it kind of pisses me off!
And the shirt with the Bible verse your son is getting – I might have to buy that as a Christmas gift. I have a friend who loves nothing more than to read the Bible and pull out the verses that people aren’t so keen on quoting when they try to convert him. So if nothing else, I got some good gift ideas out of this post I think our area is pretty diverse in terms of religious beliefs, for which I’m grateful for. I think it tempers the loudness of some people who might otherwise be the ones shouting. However, we did join a homeschool group once unknowingly, and were essentially shunned because we wore pants and my kids watched Hannah Montana (who I personally think is annoying, but didn’t think she was the devil in disguise. A view I learned is actually held by some people. Ay yi yi yi!).
Anyway, I’m rambling. I’ll stop now. =)
Brandie´s last blog ..A bit of sewing! -
Thanks for thinking about it, Luke.
Regardless of what “the church’s message” means to you personally in any given situation — in your case it means the death and resurrection, presumably along with loving and obeying the living god your faith worships, as revealed in your Sonlight curriculum’s teachings? — the question is whether “that” is more important to you than “education” in the academic sense. I suppose that would mean the much-maligned liberal arts exposure to worldly philosophies and disciplines and academic pursuits not based on that “church message” and even contradictory to it.
-
Hmmm … I believe in God, but I don’t take that kind of stuff personally.
I grew up in an atheist family and was repeatedly told by public school mates that I was going to Hell (which I understood was a really dodgy place, though I didn’t know anything about it). So I can relate to some of the frustration you’re feeling.Happy belated anniversary.
Steph´s last blog ..Depression as Spiritual Transformation
Comments are now closed.
Welcome to my little space.
Even if you don’t leave a comment elsewhere,
please consider signing my
guest book.
18 comments